Author Topic: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks  (Read 6985 times)

Offline Kichwa

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2018, 05:35:25 PM »
Trump is best ignored. Americans did an experiment, it went bad and I am sure they will correct it.  If the Dems take over the House this year they will definitely make Trump a lame president. If he is not impeached by 2020, he will still be defeated. Meanwhile the other institutions in the US are working independently of what Trump does or says. Nobody is scared of Trump like they are of Ouruto who will steal elections, threaten judges, kill opponents and loot the country with impunity. Meanwhile nothing is working for the poor man who are the majority of Kenyans.

I don't buy the argument that we need higher IQ.

It's OK to acknowledge inconvenient facts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality
Perhaps I'm mistaken and the African is not like the ostrich; in that case he must create his own narrative. Einstein said: Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid

Quote
South Africa is planning to formally protest President Trump's reported remarks referring to Haiti, El Salvador and some African nations as "shithole countries."

I could be wrong but El Salvador has a bigger non-black population - including pure whites (Americans) and the Mestizo (Spanish descendants). Trump is just foulmouthed - his beef is poor folks not blacks - a subtle difference without a distinction. He respects success not color.

Richard Lynn is a revered authority in racist circles.  That is problematic.  It would be less problematic if he had evidence on his side.  At most it's circumstantial without establishing cause and effect.  I am not even sure if one can find a reliable study that established the IQ of people in Africa.  It seems to me that IQ rises the wealthier a society becomes.  That can explain the Flynn effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect.

The most I can see about IQ is it's a test of how well one is adjusted to fit and function in a western(modern) society.  If you live in one culture, you will always suck in a test with emphasis on attributes that are valued in a different one.  Africa has been exposed to the West, but Africans have never really embraced western culture.  Even African Americans don't exist in the same culture.

A typical mzungu's skill levels are very basic things.  They are mostly glorified clerks who exist in a favorable economic environment.  They can barely think outside the box.  If he does not have a set of well written instructions and protocol, you will get chaos.  You can replace him with a well written shell script.  That said, I admire how well they can follow a script.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2018, 05:46:27 PM »
Kichwa makelele mengi. I can't wait for Ruto to take over and line up the cabinet with Matiang'is. Murkomen will deal with noisemakers as the new total man.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2018, 05:55:08 PM »
You really like to twist the truth. Kenya did exceedingly well during Uhuru first five and that is why he won. It did way better than US in similar period. The economy grew on average 5-6% (that is amongst the best anywhere in the world - China is now doing 6.5%?). We saw electrification on steroids - and street lighting never seen before - my rural outpost has street lights - and if you go to Uganda - you'd be luckly to find one working street light. We saw SGR - kenya biggest public investment ever - delivered on time and budget - that SGR is now operational - 700 shs to Mombasa in 5hrs and freigh (50K). We saw LAPSET get off ground. We saw the most ambitious tarmacking of roads in kenya - in Bomet my county -- there are more than 200kms under way - and this is happening everywhere. I can go on and on...but there is a reason UHURU WON by 54% - increasing his 2013 margin! Child mortality dropped; nearly every woman now gives birth in an hospital;  Kenya dropped in ease of dong business by nearly 80 position - now it sit next to Rwanda & Mauritius & Botwsana of Africa. Folks are now paying loan at 13-15% after kenyan capped interest rate - that was hovering towards 25%. I can go on and on.

UhuRuto have been nothing but transformative. The people like Kichwa or Terminator will not bring any EMPERICAL evidence that compares Kenya in 2013 and 2017  because the data from all institution backs Uhuru as having delivered.

UhuRuto regime have managed to achieve so much in so short a time....such a shame they don't get accolades. It only in corruption that in my view they have failed.Uhuru can cement his legacy by stamping out corruption. Not in idiotic magufuli style. But in systematic way - that focus more on putting in place tight controls that make corruption hard - in further rolling out digitization and such measures that bring transparency to the corrupt institutions.

Trump is best ignored. Americans did an experiment, it went bad and I am sure they will correct it.  If the Dems take over the House this year they will definitely make Trump a lame president. If he is not impeached by 2020, he will still be defeated. Meanwhile the other institutions in the US are working independently of what Trump does or says. Nobody is scared of Trump like they are of Ouruto who will steal elections, threaten judges, kill opponents and loot the country with impunity. Meanwhile nothing is working for the poor man who are the majority of Kenyans.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2018, 06:11:17 PM »
Precisely. Kenyans need people who are doers. The Nyachaes. The Michukis. The Bitanges. The Rutos. The Matiangis. The Balalas. People who know how to get shiet done. Otherwise we end up with politician who just know how to talk, talk and talk. We need people who can get stuff done. That is what made America great....folks actually prefer to get some work done. America work ethic is out of the world.
Kichwa makelele mengi. I can't wait for Ruto to take over and line up the cabinet with Matiang'is. Murkomen will deal with noisemakers as the new total man.

Offline Kichwa

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2018, 06:42:02 PM »
Robina, you are like a typical Kenyan politician. The only difference between you and Ababu, Munya and Iso Ruto is that at least they got paid and are expecting appointments in plum jobs.  Its not too long ago when you used to make the same things that you now characterize as "makelele" . I have more respect for a consistent kalenjin rutoist tribalist like pundit because I understand the narrow political dark hole that he resides in.

Kichwa makelele mengi. I can't wait for Ruto to take over and line up the cabinet with Matiang'is. Murkomen will deal with noisemakers as the new total man.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2018, 07:05:11 PM »
That was campaign period before NASA got rewarded with opposition role despite their glaring deficiencies - or rather because of them. My reason for voting Raila is known. Time for work now. You actually think competent folks are bad because you don't like them. That's the difference between us. Even Trump with the recovering economy is likely to be rewarded. He just has a PR battle ahead.

Robina, you are like a typical Kenyan politician. The only difference between you and Ababu, Munya and Iso Ruto is that at least they got paid and are expecting appointments in plum jobs.  Its not too long ago when you used to make the same things that you now characterize as "makelele" . I have more respect for a consistent kalenjin rutoist tribalist like pundit because I understand the narrow political dark hole that he resides in.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kichwa

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2018, 07:24:18 PM »
Robina. Dow Jones will always go up and down and would have gone up and down even with Hilary. I am sure the economy of the United States was great during slavery and so was South African economy during apartheid and maybe Germany's economy during Hitler.  Electoral injustice, impunity, tribalism, mismanagement of the economy and dictatorship are not acceptable in exchange for "moving on".  You can move on all you want but please, do not start with that condescending attitude of telling other people to move on. Have some respect for those of us who will never cow tow to the allure of fake "development". I am sure you now think you are on the "winning side" but we will change the ouruto political trajectory of capturing the state through electoral theft. There are just too many of us to be ignored or wished away.

That was campaign period before NASA got rewarded with opposition role despite their glaring deficiencies - or rather because of them. My reason for voting Raila is known. Time for work now. You actually think competent folks are bad because you don't like them. That's the difference between us. Even Trump with the recovering economy is likely to be rewarded. He just has a PR battle ahead.

Robina, you are like a typical Kenyan politician. The only difference between you and Ababu, Munya and Iso Ruto is that at least they got paid and are expecting appointments in plum jobs.  Its not too long ago when you used to make the same things that you now characterize as "makelele" . I have more respect for a consistent kalenjin rutoist tribalist like pundit because I understand the narrow political dark hole that he resides in.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2018, 08:12:35 PM »
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline gout

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2018, 01:21:03 PM »
Looking at the list of the men who made America what it is - they were never politicians. The politicians and govt came in to regulate when these movers became too strong as they still are today.  That is the reason why even if America is led by a goat no much ruin will happen as the CNNs would want the world to believe. In Africa we expect politicians who have participated in creating the mess to correct it, reason we will largely keep running like headless chicken. While Vanderbilts, Carnegies built the US rail based on a steel vision, our cargo loan based SGR is having problem with what to carry despite the figures of increasing imports  and the containers KPA indicates it is handling!! Adding the last mile transport the cost is adding up to the same with what trucks charge!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Built_America

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/business/Goods-shortage-stalls-Kenya-SGR-cargo-business/2560-4251750-15gm49/index.html

Precisely. Kenyans need people who are doers. The Nyachaes. The Michukis. The Bitanges. The Rutos. The Matiangis. The Balalas. People who know how to get shiet done. Otherwise we end up with politician who just know how to talk, talk and talk. We need people who can get stuff done. That is what made America great....folks actually prefer to get some work done. America work ethic is out of the world.
Kichwa makelele mengi. I can't wait for Ruto to take over and line up the cabinet with Matiang'is. Murkomen will deal with noisemakers as the new total man.
I underestimated the heartbreaks visited by hasla revolution

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2018, 10:05:23 PM »
Richard Lynn is a revered authority in racist circles.  That is problematic.  It would be less problematic if he had evidence on his side.  At most it's circumstantial without establishing cause and effect.  I am not even sure if one can find a reliable study that established the IQ of people in Africa.  It seems to me that IQ rises the wealthier a society becomes.  That can explain the Flynn effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect.

The most I can see about IQ is it's a test of how well one is adjusted to fit and function in a western(modern) society.  If you live in one culture, you will always suck in a test with emphasis on attributes that are valued in a different one.  Africa has been exposed to the West, but Africans have never really embraced western culture.  Even African Americans don't exist in the same culture.

A typical mzungu's skill levels are very basic things.  They are mostly glorified clerks who exist in a favorable economic environment.  They can barely think outside the box.  If he does not have a set of well written instructions and protocol, you will get chaos.  You can replace him with a well written shell script.  That said, I admire how well they can follow a script.
Absolutely. I used to think you were a believer in this racist IQ stuff, glad to see I was projecting!

That said, one of the groups with the highest IQ on the planet, comparable only to Ashkenazi Jews and some Chinese groups, are the Ibos of Nigeria. Lots of them moved to the UK during the war and they have been astonishing people there ever since.

I believe in the IQ group differentials as long as we are clear which groups we are comparing. Why would one compare all blacks in one camp vs all whites just because they share one or a couple of traits whose only discernible significance is appearance for the most part? There are such vast differences among each of these groups on many other traits that it makes such groupings ridiculous from a scientific point of view. That's why many scientists reject the idea of race (based on colour and not geographic groups), not just because it's prejudiced but because there's no good scientific basis for such large groupings just because they share skin colour. More fundamental traits could be used to create very different groups, for example. Just because these traits are not readily seen like we see skin colour doesn't mean they are not much more fundamental. So yes, there are differences between geographical groups, some kind of adaptation, so you don't get to credit the Irish with traits of a group in Eastern Europe for example, and same thing in Africa.

You have identified the key issue as far as our structural struggles. Systems like the Western one are outputs of certain traditions that grow over a time in no discerned conscious way. The systems that prevailed in most of Africa were informal and predicated on small close-knit groups. To the extent that agriculture made the growth of larger and larger kingdoms possible, these systems became gradually more and more centralized, complex and rigid...more "law-like" or "state-like" in the sense we understand those terms in modernity (which is Western-derived).

Remember agriculture sprung in Sub-Saharan Africa much, much later than Europe or Asia. So all these centralizations and complex organization that start to develop with stabilized and larger groups due to agriculture were only at their early stages here in the last 1000 years or so (not counting the Egyptians with their Nile and connection to the rest of the world, of course, plus their derivatives in the Sudan). Africans are per for the course with the rest of humanity in terms of stages of economic evolutions over time.

It is the curse of the modern African that he must live at a time when reductionist thinking determines his nature re other humans by looking at this "evidence" of "intelligence" without caring about the noted patterns of the evolution of human society across time in response to economic changes. Hopefully, 200 years from now, thoughts like this will appear ignorant to anyone who studies our times, though not as ignorant as say, those that prevailed a few decades or centuries ago.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2018, 10:59:59 PM »
Kadame I don't disagree with your evolutionary adaptation theory. The 200 years estimate is however disheartening. Pundit is more optimistic and believes Africa will be up there in a generation or two.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline gout

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2018, 12:34:42 PM »
Majority of Africans are retarded due to malnutrition in early years. Lack of enough food and proper diet affects brain development. The results in KCPE and KCSE are proof that majority of Mwafrika are retarded. Without enough proteins in early years mens most of us will remain savages. Reason why all these African elites who were born in abject poverty only think of primitive accumulation. Be it Kenyatta mzee, Moi, Kibaki, Biwott, Ruto and all hustlers who talk of 'kutoka mbali'. Gouging on nyama choma cannot cover for lack of proteins when they are needed most.
I underestimated the heartbreaks visited by hasla revolution

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2018, 02:38:17 PM »
Majority of Africans are retarded due to malnutrition in early years. Lack of enough food and proper diet affects brain development. The results in KCPE and KCSE are proof that majority of Mwafrika are retarded. Without enough proteins in early years mens most of us will remain savages. Reason why all these African elites who were born in abject poverty only think of primitive accumulation. Be it Kenyatta mzee, Moi, Kibaki, Biwott, Ruto and all hustlers who talk of 'kutoka mbali'. Gouging on nyama choma cannot cover for lack of proteins when they are needed most.
Lol!

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2018, 04:15:27 PM »
The reason for food stumps in the US welfare system is actually kid nutrition. gout's analysis is correct but shallow
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2018, 04:28:11 PM »
Richard Lynn is a revered authority in racist circles.  That is problematic.  It would be less problematic if he had evidence on his side.  At most it's circumstantial without establishing cause and effect.  I am not even sure if one can find a reliable study that established the IQ of people in Africa.  It seems to me that IQ rises the wealthier a society becomes.  That can explain the Flynn effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect.

The most I can see about IQ is it's a test of how well one is adjusted to fit and function in a western(modern) society.  If you live in one culture, you will always suck in a test with emphasis on attributes that are valued in a different one.  Africa has been exposed to the West, but Africans have never really embraced western culture.  Even African Americans don't exist in the same culture.

A typical mzungu's skill levels are very basic things.  They are mostly glorified clerks who exist in a favorable economic environment.  They can barely think outside the box.  If he does not have a set of well written instructions and protocol, you will get chaos.  You can replace him with a well written shell script.  That said, I admire how well they can follow a script.
Absolutely. I used to think you were a believer in this racist IQ stuff, glad to see I was projecting!

That said, one of the groups with the highest IQ on the planet, comparable only to Ashkenazi Jews and some Chinese groups, are the Ibos of Nigeria. Lots of them moved to the UK during the war and they have been astonishing people there ever since.

I believe in the IQ group differentials as long as we are clear which groups we are comparing. Why would one compare all blacks in one camp vs all whites just because they share one or a couple of traits whose only discernible significance is appearance for the most part? There are such vast differences among each of these groups on many other traits that it makes such groupings ridiculous from a scientific point of view. That's why many scientists reject the idea of race (based on colour and not geographic groups), not just because it's prejudiced but because there's no good scientific basis for such large groupings just because they share skin colour. More fundamental traits could be used to create very different groups, for example. Just because these traits are not readily seen like we see skin colour doesn't mean they are not much more fundamental. So yes, there are differences between geographical groups, some kind of adaptation, so you don't get to credit the Irish with traits of a group in Eastern Europe for example, and same thing in Africa.

You have identified the key issue as far as our structural struggles. Systems like the Western one are outputs of certain traditions that grow over a time in no discerned conscious way. The systems that prevailed in most of Africa were informal and predicated on small close-knit groups. To the extent that agriculture made the growth of larger and larger kingdoms possible, these systems became gradually more and more centralized, complex and rigid...more "law-like" or "state-like" in the sense we understand those terms in modernity (which is Western-derived).

Remember agriculture sprung in Sub-Saharan Africa much, much later than Europe or Asia. So all these centralizations and complex organization that start to develop with stabilized and larger groups due to agriculture were only at their early stages here in the last 1000 years or so (not counting the Egyptians with their Nile and connection to the rest of the world, of course, plus their derivatives in the Sudan). Africans are per for the course with the rest of humanity in terms of stages of economic evolutions over time.

It is the curse of the modern African that he must live at a time when reductionist thinking determines his nature re other humans by looking at this "evidence" of "intelligence" without caring about the noted patterns of the evolution of human society across time in response to economic changes. Hopefully, 200 years from now, thoughts like this will appear ignorant to anyone who studies our times, though not as ignorant as say, those that prevailed a few decades or centuries ago.

That would be vooke.  He and Robina share this view.  I don't think IQ factors at all in how well a society does.  Culture and history explains all that.  I am not even sure what IQ measures.  Some have suggested it measures how well one can take an IQ test.  This whole Mensa thing seems to support that position.  There is not much you can put a finger on as far as contributions made to the world by this group or its members, apart from joining together with other high IQ individuals.

The African is inherently as dumb/smart as anyone else, be they Ashkenaz or Asian.  His organization leaves him vulnerable to outside exploitation.  Of course there are more immediate explanations like politics and all.  But ultimately, they are only valid, because they prevent him from optimal organization.

While I don't know who did the regional IQ tests and when, many lists put India's IQ score very much in the African realm.  But India is able to leverage a different level of organization to better exploit its human resources to pick just one example.  North Korea's IQ scores should be very similar to its southern neighbor's.  But they still starve to death over there.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

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Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2018, 05:08:09 AM »
The reason for food stumps in the US welfare system is actually kid nutrition. gout's analysis is correct but shallow
I should've highlighted the portion I was loling at. I wasn't laughing at gout's ideas, I thought his comment about our politicians was genuinely hilarious. I thought gout was funny.

Offline vooke

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2018, 09:23:06 AM »
Development is definitely complicated and that is why we need leaders who have thought about it and can coherently articulate and defend what it is that they are going to do.  However, we know that stealing elections, looting, dividing the country along tribal lines and impoverishing citizens is not a way towards development.  We are definitely heading in the wrong directions but because of stupid and silly tribalism we have our heads in the sand protecting losers, thieves and drunkards like Ouru and Ruto.

https://www.quora.com/Has-there-ever-been-a-good-dictator-at-any-point-in-history-If-so-which-ones-were-good
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2018, 02:17:19 PM »
Development is definitely complicated and that is why we need leaders who have thought about it and can coherently articulate and defend what it is that they are going to do.  However, we know that stealing elections, looting, dividing the country along tribal lines and impoverishing citizens is not a way towards development.  We are definitely heading in the wrong directions but because of stupid and silly tribalism we have our heads in the sand protecting losers, thieves and drunkards like Ouru and Ruto.

Of course I can. It is called killing the ICC cases monster followed closely by keeping the tumbocrats supportive.

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2018, 02:31:40 PM »
Kadame I don't disagree with your evolutionary adaptation theory. The 200 years estimate is however disheartening. Pundit is more optimistic and believes Africa will be up there in a generation or two.
Methinks Pundit is a little too hopeful but I don't actually think it'll take us 200 years given we are not starting from scratch and going the whole route the same way, we are taking shortcuts. I just meant that there will be a time when Africans won't need to grapple with inferiority complexes occasioned by sharp differences in the economic advancement of their societies vs those of their contemporaries. 200 was a random number.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Shitholes and Africans/Blacks
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2018, 02:44:00 PM »
If you look at Africa  - nearly 1/4 of countries are already middle class - talking the botswana,namibia,south africa, mauritius,most of arab countries - and you have many in lower middle-income including kenya - and soon many will join - so by 1950 - I expect the average africa to be leading middle income earning at least 10k usd per year or more - and living in urban areas - and generally doing fine - and possibly before end of this century - it would have caught up with the rest of the world.
Methinks Pundit is a little too hopeful but I don't actually think it'll take us 200 years given we are not starting from scratch and going the whole route the same way, we are taking shortcuts. I just meant that there will be a time when Africans won't need to grapple with inferiority complexes occasioned by sharp differences in the economic advancement of their societies vs those of their contemporaries. 200 was a random number.